Into the Wild / Grizzly Man
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posted by Mr. Webb | Tuesday, November 11, 2008
44 Comments:
I have only watched the documentary and read some of the book, but with the information I have gathered from those two sources it has come to my attention that Timothy Tredwell had good intentions, but lost sight on how to conquer his goal of getting the state park patrol to protect the bears better than they already were.
In the beginning the bears respected Timothy and he respected them. He tried his hardest fit into the bear culture and for a while he did, but he made a mistake that cost him his life by becoming friends with the bears. He began to show them his emotions instead of his respect. When dealing with large animals a person needs to respect the strength of the animal and give them their space because at any moment that animal could slip up and hurt someone and that's exactly what happened. When Timothy lost the respect for the animals he started treating them like people. He thought that since he'd been around them so long he didn't need to show them respect anymore he had begun to think that they were friends.
When he brought his faceless girlfriend up to Alaska with him he crossed the line. The bears had begun to loose respect for him already and when he brought his girlfriend up there he crossed the line. She knew to respect their space, as shown in Grizzly Man she was more timid around the bears and that is because she was giving them their space, she was smart and remembered that THEY ARE WILD ANIMALS! Not pets. But her timidity showed the bears her fear; animals can sense fear and they take advantage of it. She showed respect but lacked confidence around them so she was eaten along with Timothy.
Grizzly Man. Perf. Timothy Tredwell. DVD. 2001.
Timothy Treadwell lived a rough life, both in civilization and in the wild. His life was by choice. Almost everything he did, he had a choice in. Some may call this a good thing, while others may call it a bad thing. Many may say that the majority of Timothy’s choices where bad, but some of them were good, or met well. The grizzly bears where Timothy Treadwell’s way of dealing with the chaos of his life.
Timothy lived a normal childhood. He grew up with four siblings in Long Island in a solid middleclass family. He got average grades, not A’s but B’s. His love for animals started at a young age. His pet squirrel, Willie, was his best friend. He also loved teddy bears. In high school Timothy was the all-American boy. But getting a scholarship to Bradley University for diving started the downward spiral of his life.
When in Illinois he became involved in drugs and alcohol. Along with fracturing his back this lost him his diving scholarship sending him back home to Long Island. Timothy decided that he wanted a fresh start so when he was 19 or 20 he moved to California. There he strived to become and actor. When he came up second for the part of the bartender on Cheers, he really took a turn for the worst.
That is when he found the grizzly bears. Timothy says that the bears are what made him stop drinking. He tried all the classes and just flat out tried to stop, but the only thing that made him stop was the bears. He needed to be at his best so that he could protect them. The wild grizzly bears where Timothy’s best friends. He seemed to get along with them more that people. No man had ever had the kind of relationship with a wild bear that Timothy Treadwell has had. He learned how the handle the bears. The 1000-pound bear thought that Timothy was the dominant one. This had never been achieved before. The bears respected Timothy just as he respected them. Timothy showed more respect and love towards wild animals than he did people. He talks to the bears in a kind loving voice. On the other hand, he cusses at people.
At the time Timothy Treadwell and his girl friend where killed they where in the grizzly maze because of a disagreement with normal people. Timothy became angry when a flight attendant questioned the authenticity of his plane ticket so he went back to the grizzly maze. When he was in the wild Timothy did not have to deal with the every day stress of life.
In the wild Timothy was searching for himself and an understanding of the world. When he was in the grizzly maze there were no people to yell at him, no people for him to fight with, except the park people. He was free and with his best friend, the grizzly. This made him happy. People may say that he made ignorant choices or asked to be killed, which does make since. But really Timothy Treadwell was searching for the meaning of his life and an understanding of the world, just like any other person, but he found his answers in the dangerous land of the Alaskan Peninsula.
Grizzly Man. Perf. Timothy Tredwell. DVD. 2001.
Throughout the entire documentary of "Grizzly Man", one thing intrigued me greatly. It was the idea of religion and/or a way of life. One of the parts that really sparked my interest was when Timothy was in his tent yelling at a God, not one, but just all the ones he could name. He was yelling because the bears had resorted to eating their own cubs out of starvation because it was not raining enough which led to not enough salmon swimming downstream. He sat and pleaded in front of his camera, which acts as somewhat of a confessional throughout the film, for more rain. Timothy stated that he wasn't in any way a religious man but I guess he knew that there had to be something out there that created all this beauty he loves(which he says like 150 times in the film). But finally when more rain came he was sitting there and stating that he was a servant to whatever God did this. This is interesting because he claims he claims that he is protector of the bears, but when he can do no more he has to turn to a God. This says a lot about man. We do as much we can for the things we care about in life, but it is human nature to turn to a higher power when there is nothing left for us to do. Timothy does to a God, but nothing really comes out of it, or atleast they don't show it in the film. He does the same thing with the bears only he goes much farther with it than he does with a God. He has nothing left to do with his life, it is messed up so he turns to, in a way for him, a higher power:the bears. As one of his girlfriends states, what he is doing with the bears is a type of religion, he is striving to be like them, which in other religions, we strive to be like the God we praise, and to live as they do. And this made me wonder whether or not if Timothy had maybe taken his love for a God as seriously as his love for the bears or animals, where would he be now? It would have given him something to live for and to die for as he so willingly will for the bears. If he just would have focused that drive for the animals on something more positive(not that saving animals isn't positive, but it is a little crazy and ended up killing him) than I think he still would have had meaning in his life, which in the end was the reason for him doing all this, because he wanted a fresh start and wanted to find new meaning in his life. His story is still a one of beauty to watch. It's great to see a man throw himself so whole heartedly at something he cares for deeply, but if it was something different, or more normal, I think he would still be alive today and probably living a pretty decent life. This has been Stephen K W saying goodnight and good luck.
Although I have yet to see Grizzly Man, I have read much of Into the Wild, and I have seen the movie a few times. From what I have read in the three posts prior to mine is that the two situations that surround the book and the documentary are very similar. In both situations the two characters just don’t seem to feel the need to follow the rules of society. They choose to test the boundaries of nature, and prove that you actually can break away from society. Chris McCandless, the main character of Into the Wild, grows up in a well-to-do family, but yet never seems to find happiness. Timothy, on the other hand seems like he is trying to prove a point to the park rangers about the bears, when he seems to push the envelope a little too much. Although in the end both of these men end up dying, the story that they leave for us is one to teach and one that allows us into the minds of people who just don’t quite see why everyone feels the need to follow society.
In Into the Wild, Chris’s goal is to make it to Alaska; a place where feels he will be free from society. Along the way, however, he spends much time in places such as The Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, and California. He chooses to live as a homeless person, and he even ditches his car. Anyone reading this knows this already though, so I won’t go into great detail on the summary. The point I want to make is the point about how society makes Chris act in such an odd way. He grows up in a family that most kids would kill to grow up in; he had money, but Chris, unlike the rest of society realizes that he doesn’t need the materialistic part of life to feel content. He says in one part of the book, “Can this be the same Alex that set out in July, 1990? Malnutrition and the road have taken their toll on his body. Over 25 pounds lost. But his spirit is soaring” (37). Chris feels incredibly happy, and actually alive, it seems like. This, to Chris is living. He works in a McDonalds for some time in Vegas, where he lives on the streets, but is living among society. He always talks of getting “itchy feet,” which causes him to want to keep moving. Although this lifestyle seems very abnormal, it is the life that Chris longs for, and feels most comfortable in. the life where he doesn’t have to abide by the rules that society lays down for him, and it seems he couldn’t have been happier.
I have read about half of ‘Into the Wild’ and have watched ‘Grizzly Man’. Like Lydia said “In both situations the two characters just don’t seem to feel the need to follow the rules of society.” This is true, but there is a difference between the two men. Timothy Treadwell seems to be a little bit crazy and dull in the brain, while Chris McCandless, though a little weird, appears to be much smarter and more down to Earth than Treadwell.
The people that McCandless meets along his journey seem to agree that Chris is a smart young man. Mrs. Westerberg describes him as a man who was “Hungry to learn about things” (67). She enjoyed talking about books and other things because “There aren’t to many people in Carthage who like to talk about books” (67). McCandless is obviously one of the most intelligent people to have ever been in Carthage. Wayne Westerberg also explains what he thought about McCandless upon first meeting him: “You could tell right away that Alex (McCandless) was intelligent” (18). McCandless, although appearing to be a dumb hobo, went to one of the most prestigious colleges in America. This proves him to be an above average person.
Timothy Treadwell, on the other hand, had average-intelligence at best and was at least a little bit insane. In the video, there is a scene about half way into movie where Treadwell Curses god for there being no rain. He does this because, the lack of rain is preventing the grizzly bears from getting the Salmon in the river. This is clearly an overreaction to the weather and by his instable tone and language, he sounds like he is a crazy man. There is also another scene about 2/5s through the movie where he is crying over a baby fox and blessing it, but then he switches his focus to the killers of the fox and yells and uses profanity. This outburst and mood-swing is another clear sigh of a disturbed man.
Although both McCandless and Treadwell leave society looking for a more natural life, they are clearly different. McCandless has a superb education and can properly interact with people, while Treadwell is probably bipolar and only fits in with wild animals.
The main thing or question that crossed my mind when reading the book and watching "Grizzly Man" was, why? What compels these people to live this lifestyle? I thought possibly that they are simply crazy or have a need to rebel against the normal traditions of society. Many of you fellow bloggers have talked about them finding meaning in their lives. Obviously they are confused about that or they would not bother living in the wilderness. With Timothy, everything he does in this movie is a reflection of himself. He states that he is trying to protect the bears, but really it is he himself who needs to be protected by someone. All he is looking for is a friend, and he finds that with some foxes and bears. After witnessing a brutal fight between two bears he talks to one of the bears about what happened. But in that conversation he throws himself in and talks about his own problems with women. He states that he would not fight over a woman just as the bears had done, but he admits he has had some rough times with women. It is also interesting that he was touched when he stumbled upon a bee that died suddenly while pollinating a flower. Died suddenly while fulfilling his duty. This is exactly what Timothy was doing. He died while doing what he loved. This almost explains the reason why Timothy lived his life in this way. When someone is so passionate and loves something so much, they ignore logic and negate reason. They let their emotions guide them. And Timothy is very much an emotional man. So the things in nature help Timothy discover meaning about himself, sure. But he feels as though he must do this. It is almost as if he believes that no one else but him could do what he is doing. Asking why does Timothy do what he does is the same thing as asking why someone wants to become an engineer or a professional basketball player. They do it because they feel that is the right thing to do. They do it because they have to find a life for themselves. They do it because they love it.
As many have said before, Timothy and Chris have a lot in common. Even though I have not seen the film yet, it is obvious that both try to escape society’s rules (Lydia B). Also, the two of them have a very strong connection with nature that leads them to leave their previous lives behind.
At one point in Into the Wild, Ronald Franz receives a letter from Alex. He tells him to “make a radical change in his lifestyle” so that he can find happiness (56). He goes on to say that people have become too attached to their lifestyle and because of that, they do not know what true happiness is: which according to McCandless is adventure. Chris does not want to be like those people that are bound to society because it offers security: Chris craves the adventure and uncertainty that society has never offered him. Furthermore, it is apparent that Chris has a very close relationship with nature whether he is canoeing in Mexico or living on the streets in San Diego. Whenever he is bonding with nature, he experiences freedom. He especially enjoys the life of a hobo jumping trains. So far, that has been Chris’s goal: To find absolute freedom and happiness.
From what was said before about Timothy cursing God for not bringing the Bears some rain, there is a connection between him and Ronald. Ronald curses God and becomes an atheist because “[he] couldn’t believe in a god who would let something terrible happen to a boy like Alex” (60). It seems as if two forces are working against each other, mankind and nature. Nature is a force that cannot be controlled (which is precisely why Chris was drawn to it in the first place). It’s outsiders like Ronald that believe that God and nature will change their ways and protect him which leaves him angered and overall disappointed that Chris did not succeed in accomplishing his dream. If nature was merciful, then Christopher would have never gone into the wild.
When Alex was living on the streets in vegas and working at McDonalds he was among society, and he was communicating with people day after day. When the people he worked with everyday were interviewed and asked to talk about him, they all had things to say about him that were a little off the wall. One employee said he never wore socks, but he wore shoes, another said he was really reserved, then his manager said she would get annoyed with him because he didn't understand why she was always trying to get him to hurry on the burger orders.
This leads one to beleive he didn't understand society, he didn;t get why people were always so hurried to get things and to buy things there was really no need to buy, like his parents trying to spoil him and buy him a new car for graduation. His lack of understanding for society could have been the reason for him rebelling it. He just plain couldn't relate to it. When the co-worker mentions him always wearing shoes but no socks she bluntly states that McDonalds has a rule that "proper shoes must be worn to work, which means shoes and socks" (56). This rule is probably in affect to keep the cleanliness of McDonalds, but Alex breaks it. Is it really just because he hates socks or is it because he doesn't understand that people don't really want to eat a burger that a man with sweaty gross feet grilled for them? Yet another misunderstanding of society on his part. He was a simple man, and because of that he wanted a simple life away from all the complexities of society and city life.
I am going to have to disagree with Ashley L. when she said “He (Chris McCandless) didn’t understand society.” Although McCandless didn’t necessarily fit in with the rest of the people when he worked at McDonald’s, I do think that he understood society.
There is a quote form Chris McCandless’s journal that says “The core of man’s spirit comes from new experience” (digihitch). This quote from Chris McCandless gives reason to believe that he understood society, but he didn’t want to fit in with it. The fact that McCandless “Worked slowly” (47) while working at McDonald’s and did not want to wear socks, just showed his loathing of society. McCandless did not hate the people the he worked with; he just hated doing the same thing everyday that involved rules (like wearing socks) that he hated. His father said that “If you tried to coach him (Chris) . . . a wall went up” (111). From this, it is shown that Chris did not want to take rules from anyone and thought he could do everything himself. The mere fact that he went into Alaska by himself conveys this point clearly. All of this being said, it is clear that McCandless does understand society; He just does not like it and wants nothing to do with it.
Digihitch.com, comp. "Into the Wild movie - movies with hitchhiking, freighthopping, and road culture." Digihitch movies. Feb. 2001. 09 Dec. 2008 http://movies.digihitch.com/intothewild/chris-mccandless/quotes
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Alex Z W states "From this, it is shown that Chris did not want to take rules from anyone and thought he could do everything himself. The mere fact that he went into Alaska by himself conveys this point clearly." I also think that although both Timiothy Treadwell and Chris McCandless understood society, they wanted nothing to do with it and therefore isolated themselves as quickly as possible. Neither of them particularly enjoy obeying the government's rules especially about the restrictions in National Parks. Both of them break the rules and have no problem for it-- they live by their own rules. This is similar to the idea of relativism in which each individual sets their own standards, own rules, or own beliefs. A person individually decides what is right for them. What is right for them may not necessarily be right for another individual. Both Treadwell and McCandless seem to think that way.
Another thing mentioned that they both have in common is their minimal success with women. Treadwell states that he wishes he was gay because they have it easier. And although a girl had a crush on McCandless, he turned her down with no interest: "Was relieved as well-- relieved that he had again evaded the impending threat of human intimacy, of friendship, and all the messy emotional baggage that comes with it." (55) Having a long term relationship--even with his parents--would leave Alex/Chris tied down and he did not want that. He wanted absolute freedom--to go where he wanted when he wanted. In a way, both Treadwell and McCandless' only true love was Mother Nature. It was where each of them was truly sastisfied and content. Timothy said time and time againg to the bears, foxes, and the bee that he loved them. Krakauer states, "McCandless may have been tempted by the succor offered by women, but it paled beside the prospect of rough congress with nature, with the cosmos itself." The wild is where they felt content. Their desire to find themselves was also a journey to sastify their feelings for nature.
Chris McCandless and Timothy Treadwell are almost the exact same person. They both are searching for a meaning for their lives. In doing this they are both lead to the open country of Alaska. In the wilderness they do not have to socialize or interact with humans, which both of them hate doing. Molly talked about how both of them understood society and that is why they left. This is absolutely true. They hated everything about society and decided to go and live where they could not be bothered by the everyday annoyances of society. They do not like the everyday patterns of the world. In a letter to his friend Ron, Chris McCandless wrote, “I think you really should make a radical change in your lifestyle and begin to boldly do things which you may previously never have thought of doing, or been hesitant to attempt… The joy in life comes from encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon.” (56-57). Chris just got board of living his normal life and decided to break the pattern of life and live free. He enjoyed it so much that he encouraged others to try it. This was his calling in life. To live free and see the world and he felt the need to share it with some of his closest friends.
Molly also talked about “their minimal success with women”. They would much rather be with wild animals or on their own that live with women. As she also mentioned, a relationship would have tied them down, making their life even more of a pattern. This was not what either of them wanted. Anything that would tie them down or not allow them to live free they stayed away from. Both of them only had a few friends, but they were more like acquaintances. Friends would require, again a steady relationship not allowing them to live freely.
Chris and Timothy probably understood society better than anyone. When they looked at society they saw things that they did not like, so they ran away. There was no way that they could change the world so they went somewhere that they could control. In the wild it was just them and nature, a freedom from live. They did what people dream of doing, running away from the pain of everyday life.
Timothy Treadwell and Chris McCandless are very similar, as many people have said. But in the whole they are two different people. They both had similar causes but both had very different outlooks on society and where they fit into it. I agree with Alex Z when he claims, “McCandless didn’t necessarily fit in with the rest of the people…but I do think that he understood society.” Chris McCandless understood society completely, he just did not fit in or agree with it’s ways. He was highly educated and politically aware but he didn’t understand why people acted the way they did. Prejudgments, and stereotypes were not apart of McCandless, but that doesn’t mean he was easy to be accepted by. He had his strict way of life and he never changed it. He looked down on people who did not see things his way. Timothy Treadwell thought he understood society but he was very far off. He thought what he was doing was his calling, and that he must protect the bears he was living with. The bears most likely could have been fine without him. He was what I would call crazy, where as Chris McCandless is what I would call a dedicated vagabond.
Although, both are similar in their passion and dedication to their certain causes. Treadwell’s was to protect the Alaskan bears. And McCandless’s was to escape society completely. Neither would stop at anything, which in the end resulted in both their deaths. Both were reckless either if it was crossing the border in a canoe or attempting to befriend a grizzly bear, neither of them took the most important and necessary precautions. They also both believed strongly against many aspects of the government. Treadwell boycotted many camping laws and was incredibly mad at their open space and park boundaries. McCandless disagreed with many aspects of taxes and hitchhiking laws. These laws and boundaries did not stop them, and led them into trouble many times.
It has been brought up many times during this blog about the two adventurers, Chris McCandless and Timothy Treadwell, on a mission to find meaning in their lives. I disagree with Will J when he states, “Obviously they are confused about that or they would not bother living in the wilderness.” This is isn’t crazy. This is their way of making meaning. Where some people go to church and on mission trips to find meaning, these two characters return to a much more simpler life by escaping into the wild (no pun intended). By isolating themselves from society and people as a whole, they find out what makes them tick and who they are inside. Although Treadwell was definatly a little crazier than McCandless he had the same isolation and searching for his sould idea as McCandless.
A major difference between the two men is their personalities. Even though both were outgoing and fun to be around. Treadwell was more open about his life and feelings. Where McCandless would just let it fester and never speak a word about anything. Treadwell would create close relationships with women, where McCandless just would stay focused on his goals. Although both were very independent people, they really were direct of opposites of each other. Chris was a distant hidden in his own feelings type of person, where as Treadwell was a open, tell all type. Treadwell desired companionship where McCandless felt better to be single.
In my last blog i talked about Timothy Treadwell and how that him living in the wild was a way of making meaning in his life which in a sense is a form of religion. And since then many people have said much of the same and adding their own input, a lot of which is just their opinion. I don't really think it's important to talk about whether or not what either of these men did was crzy or not. I think that's beside the point. I do agree with Will J W when he asks, "Why?" And you can't say it is because there crazy(well you could but you'd be wrong), because being crazy constitutes not really having control over your mind, and each of these men made a conscious decision to go out and live in the wild. And could two crazy people really be able to survive out there, if they were crazy, they would have no idea what they were doing and they would have died a lot sooner than they did, and keep in consideration that both of their deaths were huge accidents; slip ups. Now if you wanted to say that they did what they did becasue they were crazy about what they were doing, or in other words, very passionate about their chosen lives, then I think you would be right. They each wanted a fresh start away from all the trivial nothings of society. Treadwell who was down and out in his life needed something to help pick himself up, and devoting his time and life to living with the bears and trying to help them is what did that for him. Chris on the other hand, was more or less just sick of the life he was living which was actually an extremely good one. But to him he was living a mindless existence, without meaning; just living out the dreams his parents had for him. It's interesting how these two men both choose basically the same lives, but because of completely different circumstances, although for the same reason:to find meaning.
They both chose lives that most of us wouldn't choose, but just like the weasel, they latched themselves onto that pulse and hung on. This has been Stephen K W saying goodnight and good luck.
In Into the Wild Jon Krakauer says, “many people concluded that the boy must have been mentally disturbed” (70). And maybe Chris McCandless didn’t function “normally”, but there is no definition for normal, so I don’t think his motives should even be analyzed; people are free to do what they want without judgement. However, this assignment requires the production of my own ideas. Chris’s story is beautiful and mesmerizing, and it shows that people should live for themselves and by their own beliefs without the influence of others.
I disagree with Kelsey B.’s statement, “Chris just got board of living his normal life and decided to break the pattern of life and live free.” He was not bored with his life, he was sick of living under the control of other people. Krakauer tells the reader about Chris’s relationship with his father: “Chris submitted to Walt’s authority through high school and college to a surprising degree, but the boy raged inwardly all the while” (64). He did not share the same ideals as his parents; therefore, a new car was deemed unnecessary along with any gifts because to Chris they represent the flow of money by which everyone lives by. Chris didn’t go to law school because he was tired of doing what teachers wanted him to do, and he broke connection with his family because he hated “the hypocrisy of his parent’s lifestyle” (Krakauer 64). A person can never be truly free in our society, but Chris went traveling around to live as close to freedom as possible. He wanted to be in control of himself, to be the “master of his own destiny” (Krakauer 23), and he couldn’t do that under society’s temptations of money and wealth and relations in the abundance they are found presently; so he returns to nomadic existence, living with necessities not luxuries. He changed his name to Alexander Supertramp to be in total control of himself and that included his identity.
Brittany W. stated that Chris “was highly educated and politically aware but he didn’t understand why people acted the way they did.” I believe he did understand the actions of people, he just didn’t want to be accustomed to them, which may force him to act the same way. He was smart and knew how society worked, but it was all against his beliefs; that is why Chris McCandless left, to be his own ruler. The wild lacks the judgements and dispositions of people, so it appealed to him, it was supposed to save him from society and help him experience what it means to truly live.
People say that Chris McCandless and Timothy Treadwell were searching for a purpose in life. Timothy Treadwell found his purpose in life, to educated people about grizzly bears. He loved the grizzly bears so much, that he tried to show everyone how lovable they really are. Granted he went too far in showing his love for them, but he is still teaching today.
While Treadwell was still alive he set up an organization called Grizzly People. This organization “is a grassroots organization devoted to preserving bears and their wilderness habitat. [Their] goal is to elevate the grizzly to the kindred state of the whale and dolphin through supportive education in the hopes that humans will learn to live in peace with the bear, wilderness and fellow humans.” Many people fear grizzly bear, unlike dolphins or whales, so they do not care if the bears live or die. This organization is trying to change that. They want to show people that grizzly bears are animals too. Just because they are dangerous does not mean that they deserve to die. Really, they are not all that dangerous if treated correctly. Timothy Treadwell lived with them for thirteen years.
Along with the setting up of Grizzly People, Treadwell also took time and effort to visit schools and educate young children about bear safety. While he was being a hypocrite when he told them not to get within one hundred yards of the bear, he did teach young children a lot about bears, that they probably would not have learned otherwise. He may have saved a person’s life by teaching them bear safety, who will ever know?
People call Treadwell crazy for what he did, but he is just like everyone else. He found his calling in life, to protect the grizzly bears. Like Stephen K said, “he was not crazy because of what he did; he was crazy for what he did”. Treadwell poured his life into bear protection and education of the bears. Just because this may not seem like something somebody should life for, somebody has to do it. Everybody has a purpose in life and Timothy Treadwell’s was to protected and educated people about the grizzly bears.
"Home Page." Grizzly People. Grizzly People. 13 Dec 2008 http://www.grizzlypeople.com/home.php.
Grizzly People, [and] Treadwell also took time and effort to visit schools and educate young children about bear safety.” He wanted to save the bears, and also help educate the young people. He was ultimately helping society where as Chris was proving a point to society. In many of the posts that I have read, everyone seems to be restating one point-the point that each of these men were trying to find a purpose to their life. Stephen K W commented, “In my last blog I talked about Timothy Treadwell and how that him living in the wild was a way of making meaning in his life which in a sense is a form of religion.” This to me seemed like a very odd aspect to look at why he decided to live with the bears. Because, in a way, he sort of worshiped the bears, but it ultimately lead to death, which could be looked at as sacrifice; that is if you saw his odd way of life as being a religion. Chris McCandless was doing the same thing, well in a sense that he too wanted to find meaning. Growing up in the society much like we are today, where everything is materialized and it all seems to be a fantasy, I can understand why Chris wanted to leave and find meaning in his life. I don’t believe that it was because he was insane, I believe that it was because he was smarter than the rest of society and knew that he did not need all the “stuff” to live and thrive. He wanted to prove to himself that he could live in the “wild” and actually be alright. Brittany W W commented on how Chris “was highly educated and politically aware but he didn’t understand why people acted the way they did.” I agree with Marissa L on the fact that I think that he understood the society, he simply did not want to be apart of it. This to me was his purpose for leaving; to prove to society that it was possible to live in a world not surrounded by material. In Grizzly Man though, I feel that Timothy Treadwell had a much different purpose when he set out to live among the bears. Kelsey B did some research, and found out that Treadwell “[set] up Grizzly People, [and] Treadwell also took time and effort to visit schools and educate young children about bear safety.” He wanted to save the bears, and also help educate the young people. He was ultimately helping society where as Chris was proving a point to society.
“He was ultimately helping society where as Chris was proving a point to society.” Lydia B states. This statement is very accurate. I agree with her intake on the two men. Treadwell wanted to educate society and prove to them that bears are just as important as humans. Whereas Chris just wanted to get away from society, money, his family and live off the land. I think these two men are completely different. Their motivation for living in the wilderness is completely different. Chris does it on his own it is only his life he is worried about. Treadwell wanted to educate society and help save the bears. The only thing these two men have in common is that they both lived in the wilderness and they both died out there. Chris traveled much before he “settled” down in Alaska and died. Treadwell only survived in Alaska he did not do much traveling before hand.
The definition of Crazy has come up in this discussion quit frequently.
Crazy: mentally deranged; demented; insane. Neither of these men were mentally deranged. They both knew exactly what they wanted, they set their goal, went out and accomplished it. The only part that caught them was they underestimated nature and they were killed by it. Treadwell got too comfortable with the bears and forgot how they were wild animals. Chris didn’t take Alaska seriously, he was not sufficiently prepared and the cold and starvation killed him.
Demitra is right when she states that these men weren't crazy, I think that people living in society like we live in today would think they are crazy because they don't understand exactly why they left their cozy comfortable houses and cars and what not because we like our possesions so much.
Both Chris and Tredwell veiwed living in the wild as a sport, probably like mountain climbing, risky but rewarding. A lot of people like mountain climbing because they get to experience things not many people will ever get the chance to, and they get to prove to themselves that they CAN climb that fourteener. And that's rewarding to them. They put out all their efforts to make it to the top of that mountain and when they get there they see all the turrain they've already passed through and think holy crap! I just climbed all that? I finally made it! This is probably why Tredwell went to live in the wild is to prove to himself he could and to experience the rewards of seeing the nature and the beautiful animals, not because he was crazy. I'm sure Tredwell would have felt rewarded if he accomplished his goal of getting more protection for the bears. He could have looked back and thought of how hard living out there was for him but then he could think of how much better things are now. He would have gotten his reward and would have gotten to do something not many people have the guts to do.
Demitra A W stated that Chris and like many other people who died in the wilderness were,"not sufficiently prepared". I totally agree. Chris as well as the other examples of people like Chris found in the book died because they thought they could survive off the land. Mckinley brought up a key question when he set out to answer, "if it was possible to be independent of modern technology" (74). He discovered that it was impossible. McCunn discovered, after trying to survive in the wilderness, that one had to "be a tiger, a killer, a . . . animal" (84). Of course only animals can survive out in the wilderness, in their natural habitat. What Chris does not realize is that the wilderness is no longer a natural habitat for humans. It is unfortunate, but true, that our race cannot live without technology and consumerism, because it our way of surviving. Chris seemed to survive for as long as he did because he accepted help from people, accepted food, and even worked for some money along his journey. All of the cases described by Krakauer of people living in the wild were described as being "dreamers" or living in their own fantasy. Were they trying to prove to themselves that absolute freedom could be achieved by abondoning the regular ways of society today? All of them seemed to fail to survive, to live a full life in the wild. There is proof however that they all sort of knew that their death was coming as they contacted friends and told them it was the last time they would see them or hear from them. They knew they would fail. All that they proved is that humans are not meant to live in the wild, animalistic, natural. It highlights the sad truth that we are so dependant on our possessions and technology, that we can no longer survive without them.
Neither of these men truly understand what “the wild” or being “wild” means. Both, Alex and Treadwell, seem to accept that it is a setting in which they could (and probably would) die. Treadwell tells us flat out “these are bears that, for survival, will kill and eat humans”. He knows this as a fact, he doesn’t understand it. On some level Alex and Treadwell knew death was a (good) possibility. These men convinced themselves that they were superior to everyone else. They could best “the wild. They would survive. Treadwell talks about how dangerous his bears are so that others will fear them. He can handle them but no one else better try. Treadwell has a ten minute rant about the park service in which he repeats that he was the one that took care of the bears. He protected them. He honestly felt like he protected them. He believed that a tiny human such as himself could protect those animals. The passion that he puts into that rant and into every time he talks to one of his animals proves that he truly felt he was doing them good. Obviously, putting himself in danger by being near the bears (closer than 100 yards which is as far as the Park Rangers rule says human should be to the bears) is not protecting them. Neither is invading on their home, setting up camp and shoving cameras into their faces every year. But the fact that he thought—believed--that this was helping the bears shows that he never grasped what “wild” meant.
He was not sane. He could not, because what of his past or because it’s just how he was, accept that he was going about his mission the wrong way. And that is why he couldn’t fit into “the people world”. People know bears are dangerous. They know better than to go and camp where the bears live. You can help save animals and not have to bother them. Yes, he went into class rooms and educated students about poaching and protecting the bears for free and that is very noble. That was one great way to go about his mission. No one was in danger when he was in the classroom and children listen. However, he wanted to be special. Be superior. The fit Treadwell threw about the media trying to find him out, was all show. He wanted to “have to hide” and be seen as the outlaw that is being prosecuted unjustly. Maybe it was never about truly escaping “people world” for Treadwell but for being seen as a hero in both “the wild” and the outside world. To feel accepted by both sides.
The idea that people who live in the present today cannot live in the wilderness without any survival equipment. These two sources, Into the Wild and Grizzly Man, are both evidence to that idea. Chris tried to live in the wild by him self and he died. While he was moving from town to town he lived off of charity and jobs he got to make money. He survived because he was living a low lifestyle with help from other people . . . We would call this poverty. To him it was living off the land which is not really the case. Then when he stopped living off of other people he went into Alaska and tried living in the cold alone with out any modern survival equipment and died. He could not live off the land.
In Grizzly Man, Treadwell tried to survive with Grizzlies. He did not really live off the land like Chris attempted. Rather he had people send up boxed and tubs or food and other survival tools. He had a camera and a tent with him as well. His intension was different than Chris’s; Treadwell wanted to show people how these creatures needed to be taken care of and that they were in need of help. But still the point is how he died trying to live in the wilderness alone with wildlife.
In both cases, both of these men died because of choices they made. They wanted to be different, and they most certainly were, they did what most people would not even think about doing. I also think that in today’s society citizens do not have much interest in wild life and the whole living off the land sort of thing. North America is a colder continent therefore making it harder to live off the land due to the cold temperature. Say these men were trying to live off the land in the rain forest or the tropical areas of the world. They probably would have succeeded because the environment is warmer and provides a better surrounding for life.
I like what Amanda R said about Treadwell trying to be the hero. She states, "Maybe it was never about truly escaping “people world” for Treadwell but for being seen as a hero in both “the wild” and the outside world." That is one major difference between Treadwell and McCandless-- Treadwell did it not only for himself but for the bears and to show people about the bears. He would not have a camera with him had he not wanted others to know about his experiences and feel the same way he did. He was ultimately gathering evidence to show people why the bears need protecting and that they should feel the same way he did about the bears as he did. He even talked about wanting a show for people to see what he did like Survivor Man.
McCandless on the other hand went on his journey for himself and no one else. Perhaps he was trying to prove a point that man could survive off the land but the journey was for himself. He cut off most all relations to others in his past life and started new, afresh-- even used a new name. Treadwell's whole life was devoted to the bears. McCandless' new life was devoted to the wild and his past life of conformity had nothing to do with it.
McCandless and Treadwell both, however, disagree with society's norm. Also the people like Everett Ruess presented in Into the Wild did not like surviving and depending on each other. They disliked the conformity so much they ended up not caring. Taking unnecessary risks and taking just barely what they needed to survive. Treadwell said many times that he knew what he was doing was dangerous. They were so passionate about what they were doing they risked and eventually lost their lives because of it. They believed in what they were doing and did not care about anything else.
Demitra A. states plainly, like many others, “Treadwell wanted to educate society and help save the bears,” but I believe he wanted to do more than that. Timothy Treadwell lived among the grizzly bears for thirteen summers, without weapons, longer than any other human in modern times. Amanda R. says, “He was not sane.” However, at 5:50 Treadwell dictates, “They can kill. They can bite. They can decapitate.” He knows how dangerous the bears are and exactly what he is doing at all times. You don’t have to be crazy to understand and admire the wild lifestyle; Treadwell wished that the human world was more like the wild because he felt at peace with the grizzlies. There is a boundary between animals and humans, and Treadwell was trying to prove that there didn’t have to be one. After all, humans are animals just like those in the wild, but they have evolved to seem, or be, superior to others and have formed a boundary.
In the film Sven Haakanson states at 30:23, “Timothy Treadwell crossed the boundary that we have lived with for seven thousand years.” Because he crossed the boundary, many say he “payed the price,” but he lasted 13 summers, which is a vast amount of time. Treadwell proved that there is not a boundary if you can hold your own and be strong among the grizzly bears. He lived with the grizzlies and they treated each other respectfully, so Treadwell simply dissolved the invisible boundary. This shows that they were equal. He lived as another animal in the wild, the way the bears viewed him, the way he wanted to be seen. Treadwell’s story shows that humans and animals can cohabitate if they are on the same level.
Sven Hakaanson is not a person, I believe. If I'm not mistaken the person who said that was Werner Herzog, the director. PLease correct me if I'm wrong, because I would do the same.ok bye.
It is Sven Haakanson's voice (no accent like Werner Herzog), so I believe it is his statement. He is speaking over the video of Treadwell and the bear in the water. It begins with "Looking at it from my culture." Thanks for checking it.
In the book, Into the Wild, it states how many people are very similar to McCandless. One man even went so far as to say “[Chris] was hardly unique”. This is partly true because there are many people before him like Everett Reuss, but then one does not here about these types of people everyday. The ones that leave everything behind and only take what they can carry on their back definitely are the kinds of people we are not used to being around.
It was very interesting how all of the nature men changed their names to something other than their birth name. Timothy changed his last name to Treadwell because it was more of an actor name, Chris changed his name to Alex Supertramp, and Everett Reuss changed his name to Nemo. This seemed very peculiar, but they changed their identities because when they went out on their own, it was like they became a different person. They no longer felt like they were Christopher of Everett. Because when they abandoned their lives, they also abandoned their identity as well.
By watching grizzly man, I have discovered that two did not fit in with society for many reasons. Timothy Treadwell never found acceptance with humans which is why he became so in tune with the bears in Alaska. He even said that he never had any success with women, which is another reason why he tried to escape society. His relationships did not last so he went to Alaska where he believed that he would be accepted by bears. McCandless was not like Timothy; he did not run away because he didn’t have friends—it was obvious that he made multiple friends along the way. He ran away because society pressed too many rules on him. His life had been too planned out, so he went in searach of adventure “[his] spirit had a passion for adventure” (57). Also, he never liked the rules that were forced upon him either. Alex Z said that “Chris didn’t want to take rules from anybody”. This is very true because Alex never wanted to be a follower like when his physics teacher wanted a specific lab write up; Christopher came up with him own way to do it, but got an F anyway (109). He definitely felt that society was too restricting and that he needed to find a way to escape the rules.
Christopher felt like he had no choice, but to leave his monotone life behind, and find what truly made him happy. Christopher is just like everyone else. Everyone is in search of what makes them happy. It is just that Christopher found happiness in an unlikely place.
Alex wanted to test himself. He wanted to see how far he could push his body and mind. He had an exaggerated idea of how the wilderness really was and thought that he could handle it because he could let go of his car and need of a lot of money. He even thought that if he could let go of his ties to people he would be closer to being wild. Molly put it well when she said he, “went on his journey for himself and no one else. Perhaps he was trying to prove a point that man could survive off the land but the journey was for himself.” He was trying to prove a point, but no one besides him and maybe the people he met while he was hitch hiking were meant to see that point made. But, what point? Men can just walk into the wild without the proper tools to stay alive? Alex was offered a good pair of boots, not a cell phone or ipod, boots. He was even offered to go and buy some simple supplies. Like a good gun, that could actually kill an animal that he could actually eat and live off of. Or a good sleeping bag. Or something other than rice to eat with his squirrel. Or even just an first aid kit. Even cave men had tools. They lived in the wilderness, barefoot and hardly clothed, but they adapted to that kind of living over hundreds of years.
We have grown out of that and are now dependant on our heaters, running water, and feather pillows. There is nothing really wrong with depending on running water or, lets say, a hospital for when we get hurt. It is a really good idea to have those things around now a days. We can no longer just walk out and kill our food, skin it and cook it with just a butter knife. Alex thought he could. He obviously had something wrong with him. He couldn’t see that life isn’t like that anymore. Sure, the occasional group of men will go out every October to hunt for the perfect buck but when they go, they go prepared. They have a tent. They have jackets. They have good boots! Yes, you could live outside. You just have to have the right tools. Alex couldn’t see this. He just didn’t understand. He lived through hitching hiking all over the west; he lived through canoeing down to Mexico and back. So why couldn’t he just walk out into Alaska’s wilderness and make it? He had himself so convinced he would live. On this level he was just like Treadwell. They both had fantasy ideas about the wild and neither truly understood what it meant. Their fantasies, Alex’s born because of his books and Treadwells developed over too many summers with the bears, blinded them. And ultimately that is what killed them. Reality. When they finally saw what reality really was, Alex realizing that he couldn’t live with the barest minimum and Treadwell figuring out that bears really will eat people, they died.
I have just finished Into the Wild and in the end of the story I realized there were some connections to the movie Grizzly Man. In the movie a man is interviewed and asked some questions about his opinion on the death of Treadwell. The man answers with very mean and pessimistic view. He calls Treadwell stupid and names like that. In Into the Wild one Alaska correspondent says, “Not only did McCandless die because he was stupid but ‘the scope of his self-styled adventure was so small as to pathetic”’ (177). This statement is similar to how some people felt about Treadwell.
Another example of where the two men are similar is on page 197 the author talks about the destroyed cabins. The is a theory that McCandless destroyed the cabins because he dislikes the government. This is similar to Treadwell because a the end of the film he goes off on a rant screaming at the government and park service. Both cases these men are showing aggression to the government and to the state. They both dislike the government and would like to show their aggression in some way.
I have a question, on page 194 the author mentions an Edward Treadwell. Is this Treadwell related to the Treadwell from the movie?
In her last post Demitra A discusses an interview of Treadwell's and McCandless's deaths. The man reporting on Treadwell "calls Treadwell stupid" as well as "Alaska correspondent says, “Not only did McCandless die because he was stupid but ‘the scope of his self-styled adventure was so small as to pathetic.'” I think this brings up the two men’s greatest difference and similarity. In some aspect, yes, going into the Alaskan wild with borrowed boots and a bag of rice is stupid. However, in both Treadwell and McCandless's cases, the traveling into unknown and unchartered territories was wise, even beneficial.
In one of his earlier posts, Will J asks "Why?" The answer I think both men would respond with is, why not? When one considers the alternatives of their lives, of our lives, one can only see death. That is the ultimate ending to every single life that exists on this planet. Treadwell was deeply involved with drugs and alcohol addiction. He even said himself that he would die if he had continued his lifestyle and not found the bears. In Christopher's case the effects of society were his vice, the weakness and greed people submit to, the way something that should be so hard to achieve (a new car, higher education)are so easily handed over in times of need. Krakauer calls it "the hypocrisy of his parent's lifestyle"(64). This drove Christopher to madness and infuriation. The dependence upon material possessions and upon others caused him to flee, knowing if he were to succumb to society any longer he would become insane.
In Grizzly Man, a man close to Treadwell confirms that Timothy was "smarter than everyone gave him credit for," suggesting that Timothy's idealistic thinking and seeming irrational views on living were mistaken for being "stupid" and "crazy." And this goes along with Christopher too. But it is really us who are misunderstanding. These men know we are going to all die and face that reality almost daily--in fact, they probably enjoyed its threat. It is us who stick to the morals of common society, that are afraid of the looming presence of death, so we stay “conditioned to a life of security” (57). Both these men see the point of living to their highest potential before the ultimate potential--whether conserving Grizzly bears or individually persuading and touching lives to "discover all the wonderful things that God has placed around us to discover" (57). These men see life as a time to LIVE, it may seem crazy, but why not? (We are all going to die anyways.) It is good these men died how they wanted to, surrounded by the uncontrollable nature they loved, and I think that is their lasting legacy and lesson for us to learn from them.
The main difference between these two men is not their purpose, but rather how they came about and became successful in doing what they loved. Treadwell's journey was very direct and even thought out, he had flew in supplies and was prepared for all the possibilities of mishap that could happen. He was realistic about reality and took it very seriously. McCandless, on the other was idealistic, even ignorant about possibility, and just waited for opportunity to come to him. His whole expedition, journeys, even reason for his survival so long was dependent and based upon luck. You have to admit, Christopher was one lucky kid. He had all the right traits and qualities to turn down provisions, then finally accepted them and mooched his way to his next "home." He survives on an extremely minimal amount of food and seems to always find the items he buries, as well as live through a hurricane-like storm in the Gulf of California and scorching hot conditions in Arizona. Is it possible his dependence upon luck was too great and was a leading factor in his death? Did his luck just simply run out and he should have been more prepared like Treadwell? Which is better?
Many comments have stated that the only similarity between McCandless and Treadwell is that they both lived in the Alaskan Wilderness; however, there is more than that. They were both normal children growing up, and McCandless, like Treadwell, had “an urge to escape the safety of his protected environment” (Werner Herzog). Both men kept a confessional; McCandless used his journal, and Treadwell had the camera for the last five summers of his trip. Both men also had a dark side. Chris’ was “characterized by monomania, impatience, and unwavering self absorption” (Krakauer 120). Treadwell’s friend points out at 1:6:21, “He definitely had a dark side. He was mixed up in drugs, which gets you mixed up with bad people.” As you can see, these men do share more than their lives in the wild.
Haley S. points out, “It was very interesting how all of the nature men changed their names to something other than their birth name.” McCandless begins a new identity under Alexander Supertramp, and Treadwell changes his last name from Dexter to Treadwell when he moves to California; he also refers to himself as The Kind Warrior.
Unlike Haley S. I don’t believe they changed their names just to “[become] a different person” because the names are out of the ordinary and distinct. Chris changed his name to Supertramp to be “super,” or maybe superior, living his nomadic lifestyle; he wanted to be the best at it, which is why he pushed himself. On the other hand, Treadwell wanted to be equal to the bears, but he had to be a warrior in order to be strong enough and hold his own against them. Their new names give them a sense of strength, helps them believe that they can pursue their goals.
To live in the wild, both men understood that they needed to change; thus they did so willingly. In a letter to Marnie Gaede, Treadwell writes, “I have to mutually mutate into a wild animal to handle the life I live out here.” He couldn’t be a human and survive among the grizzlies, so he changed in order to be like the bears. McCandless became nomadic, and his journal says he “lived on the streets with bums, tramps, and winos” (37). He became accustomed to living with the bare minimum, which is how he would live in Alaska. Neither McCandless or Treadwll was stupid, they knew what they needed to do in order to accomplish what they planned, and they went about it in what they thought was the most appropriate manner.
Thirdly, their actions seem to ironically foreshadow their deaths. At the beginning of the documentary, Treadwell declares, “I will not die at their claws and paws,” but he ends up doing just that. He knew the risks that he was taking and most likely knew that being killed by a bear was probable. At the start of his journey, McCandless “donated the balance of his bank account to OXFAM” (Krakauer 125). He helps to feed the hungry, but he dies of starvation in the end. This could be called fate, but I also believe it might be possible that Treadwell and McCandless had a sixth sense feeling of how their journey may end.
Okay, so from what I’ve seen, everyone is either summarizing “Grizzly Man” or “Into The Wild”. So, I’m going to say this. Hay everyone! I admire Timothy Treadwell! I know that might sound a little nuts, but I do. He only looks like a nutcase on the outside. But if you really think about what he’s doing, he’s just following his bliss. He’s “living as the weasel lives” and all that. If protecting the bears is your passion, then protect the bears! I wish everyone could have that kind of conviction. I however, don’t really like Chris McCandless. I think he’s more of the opposite of Timothy. While Timothy does what he does out of passion and all, Chris is more like “hey, let’s see what happens when I give up my rich life and run around and play Tarzan”. Okay, not exactly, but still. Chris reminds me more of the Buddha. How the Buddha was a prince or something and gave up all his riches to live a normal life. Except Chris dies. And I doubt he obtained enlightenment.
Sure, Treadwell was “following his bliss” but he was endangering himself while he was following it around. I admire him for all the work he did for the bears, like educating children (for free as he kindly reminds the camera over and over) about their situation. However, he went about, both following his bliss and protecting his bears, the wrong way. There are plenty of ways to “protect” or just try to help the bears without going and setting up a four month camp with them. McCandless also followed his bliss the wrong way to. As I stated in my last post, he didn’t understand the wilderness and therefore put himself in danger because he didn’t think his actions through logically. Treadwell only saw his beautiful creatures being poached and interfered with but he didn’t stop to think that maybe his being there was not really helping but hurting. McCandless didn’t stop to think about he would truly get enough to eat, how he would stay warm, and how he would help himself if he got hurt. The idea of being happy and alone (with bears or just out in the wild) clouded their minds so they couldn’t find a logical way to be happy. Living with weasels is a good idea, on paper. Letting go and just being happy is a fantastic idea. That idea does not include putting your self in danger! You can “follow your bliss” and live. If you want to live with bears, work at a zoo. Help them. Teach children about them. Don’t go into their home and literally follow them around. You can hurt them, and they will hurt (kill) you. If you want to live outside, be smart. Get a tent, and ways to start a fire, and a first aid kit. Be happy. Be smart.
In all of the blog entries, most people have summarized both Into the Wild and Grizzly Man, as Carlin and may others have pointed out. Well instead of just stating the obvious as many others have done, I would like to explore the different styles in which both Into the Wild and Grizzly Man consist of. In Into the Wild, Jon Krakauer uses many different styles in order to tell Chris’s story the best he could. He compiled many different stories of other hikers with similar situations to Chris’s. This added an interesting element to the book and allowed the reader to realize that although the story was written about Chris, it was also written to address the subject of leaving the materialistic world and living a solitude life and proving a point to society.
Krakauer explores the places Chris went as well, which made the story seem more real. Krakauer explains how he went to the bus where Chris died, and how it impacted him. He also interviewed people that Chris spent much of his time with on his journey. By incorporating these interviews with the journals of Chris McCandless, Krakauer was able to really capture who Chris was, and why he decided to leave the comfort of his well-to-do middle class family. Although many of the people claimed that Chris never spoke much of his real family, it was the family that Chris created through these friendships that impacted both Chris and his adventure.
Grizzly Man on the other hand was a documentary which was in first person point- of-view. This gives only one perspective and doesn’t allow the viewer to argue and explore the different aspects of why he decided to live in the wild. Though many, including myself may think he was a little bit on the crazy side, he claimed to be completely normal and claimed that he was just trying to make his point.
In both situations the varying styles and points of view create many openings for argument. Though both men decided to go off into the wild to prove ultimately the same point, the way that their stories are told is what makes each man unique. In Chris’s case he was trying to prove that he could defy the stereotype that society had bestowed upon him; but he did not go to Alaska for anyone but himself. Timothy Treadwell went off into the wild to prove the he could defy civilization as well. He was also trying to make society aware of the bears’ situation.
I agree when Lydia said “Grizzly Man. . . was in first person point- of-view. This gives only one perspective and doesn’t allow the viewer to argue and explore the different aspects of why he decided to live in the wild.” I am going to extend off of this idea a little bit and explain why Chris McCandless is more relatable to than Timothy Treadwell.
Chris McCandless is characterized to the reader by an author, Jon Krakauer. Krakauer took all of the journal notes Chris had written, interviewed people who met Chris, and then tried to compare Chris to himself. This is all good work and all, but there still is a great deal of guessing and inferring that Krakauer had to do to complete “Into the Wild.” Timothy Treadwell’s story, however, only has a narrator that loosely helps the story along. Most of the movie is Treadwell’s own home video that is raw and honest. This leads me to believe that Treadwell is the more honestly portrayed character between the two stories. Not to say that Krakauer did a bad job of telling McCandless’s story, it is just that he did not have a lot of clear proof evidence that Treadwell’s story had.
This is why I think it is slightly unfair that only Treadwell is made out to be a lunatic. McCandless had some pretty strange qualities and actions as well. Wayne Westerberg said that Chris wasn’t completely weird, but “There were gaps in his thinking” (63). Westerberg, is not the only person to say that McCandless was not completely right in the mind. Even with the things said about McCandless, there is still no doubt that Treadwell is more of a nut than McCandless. I mean come on, Treadwell stuck his hand into a pile of Bear feces. That tops anything weird that McCandless ever did, or even thought about doing.
Mr. Webb, All of the alex z w posts are me, Alex Ponzo.
Amanda R stated, "The idea of being happy and alone (with bears or just out in the wild) clouded their minds so they couldn’t find a logical way to be happy". My question is if there is a logical way of being happy? No. A person is happy just because they are happy. It is an emotion and there is no logic that can be put with deep emotions. However I do agree that their minds were clouded. They were so caught up in their passions that they did what they love while ignoring reason. The Article "Death of an Innocent" from Outside Online, an article written by Krakauer himself, stated this about Chris, "And although he wasn't burdened with a surfeit of common sense and possessed a streak of stubborn idealism that did not readily mesh with the realities of modern life, he was no psychopath". It is just that his traits do not mix or make sense to "modern life" or normal people. So compared to them, no he was not a logical person. But can anything that someone loves be considered logical? Is it logical that someone would love sports? Not really they just do. It is more a matter of opinion. And Timothy and Chris had their own opinion that living in the wild was not a wasted life. Although to many of, you it was. Maybe Timothy was not really protecting the bears by just camping with them, but he was doing it more for himself, to give him a purpose. That is all that Timothy and Chris desire, a purpose. I feel that the book and movie is to help the reader or viewer understand Tim and Chris. And I would rather talk about their traits, state of mind, values, and reasons, something more deep rather than just stating what styles help make the book more real. The whole story is already real, its nonfiction. That is what I believe is the obvious. The point is, no one can be fully understood. The mind is too complicated to understand because everyone is different. This is responsible for people getting into arguments and treating people wrong because of their differences. This could be partly why Tim and Chris isolated themselves, to get away from our non-accepting and judgmental society. Bears will not judge Tim, however they did kill him. Chris was free in the wild; he could be in his own control and away from the influences of others, the judgments and ignorance of others. Sadly, they will never be fully understood by anyone, because they were not normal. But the idea of normal can never be defined because everyone is different.
Krakauer, Jon. "Death of An Innocent." Outside Online. Jan. 1993. 17 Dec. 2008 http://outside.away.com/outside/features/1993/1993_into_the_wild_1.html.
I really agree with Lydia, Carlin and many, others. Grizzly Man, while hilarious, was very much from the singular view of Timothy. The Canadian narrator and commentator will offer his opinion on occasion, but not enough to be crucial in a discussion or in any larger part. The movie holds few other opinions. It had its moments, when his ex-girlfriend takes his possessions. The Alaskan Museum worker or the helicopter pilot. Into the Wild held the story of Chris not only from Krakauers interpretation of the knowledge he has amassed.
Into the Wild was told from Krakauers point of view, but much of the crucial insights that helped me interpret what Chris's character was like was through other stories and letters that are told throughout the book. The book was also mysterious, while I'm sure that most of the testimonies of Chris are very true, we really don't know. Just a thought, no a strong one, but from what we have learned from the book is that timothy and Chris are the same person. Both rebellious and have found how they wanted to live there lives away from the the rules of society.
One thing that I thought was very strange was really how different the movie "Into the Wild" from the book of "Into the Wild". The movie, while the same story about Chris, not only left out a few bits here and there, but really didn't show anything else other than Chris's story, whereas the book(even though Krakauer was partial to McCandless)was much more objective. Take for instance, and maybe this is just the effect of one of the most liberal things in America, Hollywood, but the movie never once mentions that Chris considered himself a Conservative. Or the fact that the film never really shows or talks about the toll Chris's selfishness took on his parents, like his mother's nightmares of him calling out to her for help. Now I know we technically aren't supposed to be blogging on the movie, but having seen it, I just couldn't help but notice these things. Another thing that was interesting was the fact that all of the examples Krakauer gives of people who are like Chris(including himself) in a way undercut the specialness of what Chris did. There are so many before him with similar back stories that did somewhat of the same thing, which almost makes his story not as spectacular. Almost. Because even though there were times where I kind of hated Chris and thought he was an asshole, pardon my french, still at the end when Krakauer says, "Maybe he was prepared to forgive their[his parents] imperfections; maybe he was even prepared to forgive some of his own. McCandless seemed ready, perhaps, to go home"(168), I didn't seem to judge him so much. He was a normal guy, who just needed to do something diffferent with his life in order to make some meaning of it, like I've said before, and he needed to find a place he called home, and he eventually I think realized he already had a home with his family. And the fact that he was, perhaps, trying to go back home and live a normal life, but dies, not only makes this a tragic tale, but separates his story from the stories of the others, who didn't realize,pardon the cliche, that there is no place like home. So when I say it almost undercuts his story, thats the almost right there. This has been Stephen K W saying goodnight and good luck and Merry Christmas.
Earlier, Will J mentioned Timothy and Chris both desire a purpose. On page 103, an excerpt from Doctor Zhivago found with McCandless stated in his handwriting that there is a "need for a purpose." I agree with Will in saying that they both desired a purpose. Everyone wants their life to have a meaning, one sole purpose in the world. The question is, did Timothy and Chris do what they did in search of their purpose? Or was it because they thought it was their purpose to roam about or protect the bears? Did they go in search of it or did they already know their purpose? Using a quote from the book Cara T used earlier: "discover all the wonderful things that God has placed around us to discover." (57) McCandless in his letter to Ron, tried to convince him to live as he did. McCandless probably wanted more people to see the world that way. Is discovering what God has placed around us all of our purposes? Is there one, universal purpose? Or is it different for each person? I think Chris knew that the wild was his purpose, or somewhere out there. Either way, i believe he wanted to discover that there was life beyond the conventional life in his suburban upbringing.
Treadwell thought his purpose was to protect the bears, he was "following his bliss" which is quite admirable, however, to the extent of living with them may have been crossing the line. There are, as a few people said earlier, ways to protect the bears without putting yourself in danger. The fact that Timothy went as far as to live with them, shows he may have had a different purpose. In the film, it was said that Timothy wanted to become a bear. These were the only creatures that truly understood him and he felt accepted. Maybe by living with them, he felt he was a bear. We all are accepted by different groups of family and friends. Instead of humans, Timothy felt accepted by the bears and that is why he proceeded go beyond the boundaries and live with them.
While both Christopher and Timothy felt as if they fit in with the wild, it is very clear that nature did not accept them like they wanted it to. For awhile, Timothy was doing fine, but like some have said before, he disrespected their space by getting to close to them. Even though he did not fear them, he became too confident and became careless, like when he brought his girlfriend, Amy. She obviously felt really uncomfortable being around bears and in the only shot of Amy, she is extremely close to a bear. What cost Treadwell his life was his passion. He loved the bears so much “that he would die for them” (Grizzly Man). Molly G said that bears were the only creatures that understood him, which was precisely why he would rather die for them than not have bears at all.
Christopher felt the same way. He was very passionate about nature, but his confidence and unawareness cost him his life just like Treadwell. At one point, he got really excited and said that today would be the day to CLIMB MOUNTAIN. He became too excited and forgot (or he never even knew) that the nature did not follow man’s rules To him, it was more of a game when he went to live in the wild. He never thought that he would become trapped in the wild. His inexperience became his downfall. For one, he never successfully smoked the moose and he ended up killing himself by eating poisonous potato seeds which ended up stealing all of his energy.
McCandless and Treadwell are not to be criticized for their foolishness, but admired for the sacrifices they made. It is not everyday that somebody donates 25,000 dollars to charity or teaches kids for free. The people that did criticize them in the book and movie did not understand them which is precisely why they ridiculed him. Both Chris and Tim abandon the material world for a more natural and fulfilling lifestyle. At least these guys went after what they dreamed. Unlike some people who sit around waiting for happiness to come to them.
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Haley S brought up a really great point when she said, "At least these guys went after what they dreamed. Unlike some people who sit around waiting for happiness to come to them." Not only is this true, but it is something all of us can see in our daily lives. But we do not. We have great potential and we continue to waste it by waiting around for greatness to fall into our laps. Sitting around and expecting accomplishments to be thrust unto us is ridiculous. These men went after what they truly wanted out of life. Granted neither situation ended on a happy note but they impacted the lives of so many people just because of who they were and what they wanted to accomplish. Christopher McCandless met many people on his great adventure to Alaska. Most of these people he came to know as friends, and they felt the same of him. He touched every individual in a unique way, whether it was befriending those he thought he'd never get along with, or bringing back feelings they had long forgotten, like those of Ron Franz. McCandless now affects us. While reading his story, his background, his last moments, I was personally touched. He is gone and yet he still manages to touch people across the world. And all of this was possible because he wanted more out of life, he wanted to live.
After reading several of the last posts I have realized that we have addressed why Treadwell and McCandless have chosen to live their lives in the wild, but there has not been much discussion on why their lives had ended there. Meaning, what characteristic and personal attributes, or fatal flaws could have caused these men to die? I mean surely, the mental character of a nomad or survivalist is just as important and needs to in be as good as condition as the physical character, right?
Haley S mentioned "[McCandless's] inexperience became his downfall. . . . he ended up killing himself" I think this is the heart at why and how McCandless actually died. Because of his "inexperience" as Haley S says, as well as his impatience. In fact, I really believe impatience is probably the single biggest factor in Christopher's death and may give a hint into what personal flaws caused Treadwell's. McCandless could not wait to go to Alaska. He was underprepared supply wise but he still continued through with his dream, because he thought he was mentally prepared. But that is simply not enough.
Another possibility to the flaw of his death is Christopher's ignorance. He is very selfish. In a criticism in response to Krakauer's article on McCandless, Nick Jans wrote, "His ignorance . . . is what killed him" (72). McCandless appears to be selfless because his detachment to material possessions and dedication to nature and preserving the wilderness in man, however, he is extremely biased and subjective to the thoughts he accepts, his mind is a closed place. He has one thought and opinion on how to survive and the wilderness and this could very well explain why he thought it was so acceptable to be so unprepared as well as why he died of such strange circumstances.
I think this is a very interesting topic and am curious to see what other "fatal flaws" we can come up with for both Timothy and Christopher.
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